Originally by: CCP Nozh

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Originally by: Lt Angus

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Sounds good overall, but feel it might nerf blaster ships more then speed ships

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On the other hand, if you fit a warp scrambler and stasis webifier, the overall speed reduction is much greater than 90%. That is, if your target is using a MWD not an afterburner.

But this is something we'll be keeping a close eye on.

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Originally by: Zaskarr

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In before nano*** QQ. Ah, too late..
CCP, don't get discouraged by all the whining you'll read here.
These changes are needed, no matter what a vocal minority shout here.
Protip to all: first read the blog, THEN poast!

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Originally by: Raquel Trotter

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Well what will be left for minmatar ships now? Speed is their only advantage currently over other races ships for most classes. I hope to hell that CCP are considering how minnie ships are balanced with other races after this change..

Also agree with other ppls comments that this seems to be another step in encouraging blobbing tactics.

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Originally by: Sid Zero

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I have a suggestion for keeping Guerilla warfare tactics viable, even making it more viable, with the proposed nano nerf.

If speed is nerfed, gatecamping should be nerfed too.
1) double lock time at gates
2) remote sensor boosters are disabled at gates
3) warp core stabilisers get a revamp: instead of making a ship completely immune to scrambling, they introduce a delay before scrambling kicks in. And throw away the ridiculous drawbacks currently associated with them - gimping your setup by dedicating 1 or 2 slots to these modules is already enough.

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Originally by: Pushtan

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Scram/Disruptors shut off mwd's

One word. Arazu.

Fuggen EPIC

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Originally by: Billy Merc

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So....what does ccp plan to do with vagabonds then ??

Seeing as tho all they have going for them is speed (even as per your ship description "fastest cruiser in existance")

not that i fly mine much these days...just curious

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Originally by: Sid Zero

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Originally by: MirrorGod

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Originally by: Sid Zero

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I have a suggestion for keeping Guerilla warfare tactics viable, even making it more viable, with the proposed nano nerf.

If speed is nerfed, gatecamping should be nerfed too.
1) double lock time at gates
2) remote sensor boosters are disabled at gates
3) warp core stabilisers get a revamp: instead of making a ship completely immune to scrambling, they introduce a delay before scrambling kicks in. And throw away the ridiculous drawbacks currently associated with them - gimping your setup by dedicating 1 or 2 slots to these modules is already enough.

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Yeah let's throw low-sec piracy out the window too, great idea.

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Low sec piracy != Gatecamping with a medium to large gang.
As a matter of fact, these changes should boost lowsec pvp, by making it possible for people to move more freely throughout lowsec, in order to get to minerals, plexes and missions, or to rat in belts --> belt piracy might even get slightly resurrected.

Furthermore, solo players would have more of a say in who they want to engage, meaning that a lot of the pvp will be between evenly matched players that are both looking for fights and want to take each other on.

Not just the little guys getting ****d constantly.

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Originally by: Xaen

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Originally by: Lt Angus

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Originally by: Raquel Trotter

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Well what will be left for minmatar ships now? Speed is their only advantage currently over other races ships for most classes. I hope to hell that CCP are considering how minnie ships are balanced with other races after this change..

Also agree with other ppls comments that this seems to be another step in encouraging blobbing tactics.

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if they are faster before the nerf they are faster after the nerf, overall speed is preety meaningless, relitive speed is what counts and it isnt changing much

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Except that you'll now get torn apart by missiles and drones.

If this goes through, HACs are dead.

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Originally by: Tiirae

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people raving about the 4km vagabond setup posted seem to be missing that:

- it has a t1 mwd
- it has no skills

so if you add decent navigation skills and faction mwd you will be able to achieve that speed for like 250m or something, which is pretty reasonable.

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Originally by: DeadDuck

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Originally by: Lt Angus

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Edited by: Lt Angus on 25/07/2008 11:12:17

Originally by: Zaskarr

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In before nano*** QQ. Ah, too late..
CCP, don't get discouraged by all the whining you'll read here.
These changes are needed, no matter what a vocal minority shout here.
Protip to all: first read the blog, THEN poast!

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not sure why nano users would cry, sure they going slower but the change looks to make speed fits a proper ship fit with 50% webs, vagabond seems untouched by the changes

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The only reasons I can figure out is that: they will not disengage as fast as they used. They will not run to the gates as fast as they used and missile boats will hit them, when until now they were pretty much immune. In the end the odds of actually a fight happens will sky rocket.

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Originally by: Dendo Ordoss

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Originally by: Malachon Draco

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A few points:

- People who say that it was possible to go on 0.0 roams before nanos, so it should be possible after. You are mistaken. 0.0 has changed. You will be surrounded by defenders using jumpportals and wiped out in your small gang if you jump through the next gate. Its not that nanogangs don't use scouts, its that nanogangs can go through small gatecamps without being slowed down enough for a big blob to catch them.

- That is not just a matter of getting to warp faster. A nanogang will typically be able to jump into a 10-15 man gatecamp and run off without losses if they just run off. Nanogangs don't kill anything while running off, but they can run through smaller gatecamps. That is important because otherwise the only alternative becomes to log off or cloak (unless you want to Leeroy and die horribly).

- Not being able to be hit while doing 5kms is not that much of a problem, since you won't be hitting anything yourself either. Its almost like a cloak, except there are counters to nanoing, but not to cloaking.

- Do not base your game changes on EFT, or even Sisi. Sisi is not Tranquility, you don't have to deal with motherships, titans, jumpbridge networks on Sisi. All of those affect the environment in which nanos are used, and are part of why nanos are needed to keep small gang warfare outside of camping a bloody gate for 3 hours viable.

- If you make changes, make them gradually. Why would you change 15 things at the same time? Make 1 or 2 changes, then see if the result is what you want. If you change 15 things at the same time, and you **** up, then you still don't know which of the 15 things was 'too much'.

- If nanos are no longer viable, it will make less fights happen. People are not gonna keep coming in small gangs if they get blobbed time after time and forced to logoff. If you would give normal ships just a bit more ability to fight back when attacked by nanos, that would not have the same effect as reducing the speed of nanoships.

- Why don't you add a new type of T2 ammo that does less damage but has superior tracking? You have the T2 ammo that does more damage but has 75% penalty on tracking. Add another type of T2 ammo that has say a 50% bonus on tracking. Then as long as people carry that they have a shot at even hitting those 10kms vagas.

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CCP, please read this post and understand what he's saying. this is one of the best posts in this thread

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Originally by: Christopher Multsanti

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I cannot be bothered to sift through all the carebear tears to find people that are actually posting sense, so if this has been mention already, sorry.


I like the dev blog, excellent changes and about time to. But you must now look at the rapier, it is overpowered because nanoness is over powered, so you must look at nerfing the rapier. Must!!

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Originally by: Rhamnousia

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Originally by: Xyleya

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snip

10MN MWD II: 500%
Acceleration Control LvL 5: + 25% = 625%
Rogue MY-1: + 3% = 643.75%
Zor's Custom Navigation Hyperlink: +5% = 675.93%

snip

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actually, the 10MN MWD II gives 550% base before skill. with acceleration control lvl 4 it yields 660%. with overheating it yields 990%.

i did not take any implant into the equation. These numbers are live on TQ as of this post.

your math is a little off, IIRC.

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Originally by: Redback911

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Originally by: Haakelen

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Haniblecter, if you're seriously not trolling, if you honestly have no clue about the many multitudes of ways to kill nanoships, you're even more pointless than I first assumed.

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Drive off, yes. Kill, no. They have option to run at any time.

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Originally by: Damned Force

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Originally by: Haakelen

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Originally by: Rawr Cristina

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Originally by: Cutesmile

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Test on Sisi.
A half skilled Drake blowing up a Vaga very fast. LOL
35millio isk 10m sp vs 200m isk and 30m sp
Very logic. Fck up CCP

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Drake is an anti-cruiser platform

You were in a cruiser

go figure.

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No, see, after this patch, the Drake is the anti-everything platform.

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Yes because the drake is so good ship. have such a firepower and tank together in 1 setup that can kill any other BC too

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